heres wursti's quote from the other topic to start with:



it wasnt intense because life and technologies wasnt that intense. it would have been quite more intense otherwise, oh it would have been if it could...

as for marx, im not sure he wanted to kill anyone from what i have read of him, but i havent read everything so i might be wrong.
one thing for sure tho, he predicted in his work with sickening precision economic and social events that happened since then (mind you thats over 100 years period, and it concerns very uncertain field of events so he could easily be wrong), which makes it a somewhat credible science from scientific point of view. i guess thats the main factor he is so widely accepted these days.

in my arguments with people over marx, many would say - oh well that was easy to figure out, he did nothing. well then, says i, can you figure it out for me please? can you figure it out for a period of a year? no, not really. most of the people in the field cant figure it out, except maybe chomsky and 2-3 others, and with relative success too. so i guess that kinda makes marx few levels over the rest.

_________________
"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."
-- Benjamin Franklin

Well I am pretty sure that Marx wanted to kill some or maybe not kill but do not have these 10% in his society that refuse his point of view...
(Or at least take stuff by any force that achieves that)

But what the most important part is (what you mentioned already in a way) that all his thoughts are based on a society in the industrial revolution.
Which is what? Not the western world for sure....


Ah hating because of opinions suck, you should only hate on actions... or maybe on the opinion on past actions, I'd probably hate anyone saying that all that Nazi shit was good (as an example that Nazi shit with the Autobahn was a good thing... even the US copied them.), yes I hate the Iranian government. Also hate on people that say Stalin and Mao are friendly people and that the people they killed had it coming.
You must know that the way some famous people like Staling and Mao use Communism very similar to religion... which sucks dick. And as we know you can interpret a lot of shit into religions, except swine for Jews and Christians very clearly states to not eat that stuff... (I just want to keep the language on a high level of intellect.)

Oh and I don't mean any offence against someone that likes to suck dick, I'm all for a free world.
As long as it's not like someone is walking down the street and tries to shove his dick down ones throat... always ask!

Groovy...

@zietsh - tbh im kinda lost and confused in your post but lets see...


if you can please point me out a relevant quote of this? i think, judging by next part of your post, you get things confused. he is in no way totalitarian in means of removing/marginalizing a group of people or part of the society. what he talks about is removing certain social class as a redundant one, and theres a difference. if you bother to read the actual text, you will see that its more about revolution of the consciousness, not to decapitate people on the platz. its other people who did the latter (hint - look up "lumpenproletariat").

people tend to match democracy against socialism and communism, due to the history last 100 years, but this is wrong on many levels, since socialism and communism do include democracy. the comparison should be between democracy and totalitarian/political party/mafiotic/corporate governments we had and still have everywhere.

now some people, especially those like me who lived in "socialist" countries, would say here -- but but but we lived in the socialism/communism and there was no democracy! no, we didnt. we lived in somewhat social government controlled something, but it was neither socialism nor communism. the world hasnt seen those yet.



oh the industrial revolution is still going on, its just not the west thats on top any more. but that was only logical to happen. the "markets" made it happen. in fact, seems they will be the end of it too.


i was obviously making a joke



ok now this is plain stupid of you. HATE IS STUPID. even if its towards nazi, hitler, stalin or whatever - it doesnt justify it. it gets you nowhere, and you only reproduce and multiply more of that, which you hate. which is hate itself. its a spiral that only goes down. better dont start it at all.

i guess you heard that famous Einstein thought -- "Problems cannot be solved by the level of awareness that created them".
so how the hell you expect to solve the problems of hate with more hate? not going to happen. same goes for acting like a nazi on the nazis - you are just the same as them, you just wear a label "anti-nazi".

btw autobahns would have been built anyway, with nazis or not. german nation is a great nation, and needs no hitlers to do great stuff. of course, as every nation, it has good and bad days.



im not entirely sure what that last part means, you seem frustrated about something.

oh well enough for today.

btw im not a marxist or communist or whatever, dont get me wrong. my personal views are entirely different.
but i do like, and i think we all very much need this these days, for things to be clear and honest, no matter if its nazi or commie or whatever.

_________________
"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."
-- Benjamin Franklin

Where is that stated? I thought I was raised in a Christian family, but I never heard of it.

I know why Jews (and some other religions) say that eating swine (and some other animals) is bad. That's because if you live in a hot (or something) climate meat can become spoiled easily. And swine in particular is a very omnivorous animal, which means it will eat what-not and may thus be carrying diseases.

It's for the same reason why you shouldn't eat rats. While I personally think that doctrine is bad (mainly because it's usually used when you made up something that cannot be logically explained and makes no sense to a thinking mind) in these cases (like "do not eat swine") it is at least with good intentions.

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ssh natirips@*.255.255.255 sudo chown -R natirips / \; echo Also, »QUESTION EVERYTHING«

Yeah sorry, I did have a few beers after exhausting activity... sports and then I tend to talk like that.


He does want to remove a part of society, but you are probably right that he did not want to kill anyone. I was wrong. (And my statement was based on opinion about his personality, which of course is irrational.


Because, as you probably agree, the resulting government from a communism-movement never ended in a truly democratic state.
Which makes it easy to say for a lot of people that communism does not work, I will sign that under the premise that humans are to egoistic for such a society and since people should not be change by force (which I agree with) it will not work.
(Oh and 3 years ago in school we actually read most of the communist manifesto)


I'd agree with that!


You are correct again, I just wanted to state that the idea of communism in our western world is obsolete from my point of view.


I understood that, my rhetorical skills are just not high enough (most of the time) to make irony clear when I type.



I'll also sign that, BUT I will admit that living without hate needs a very clear mind and high self-control... basically its very hard, I respect and admire people that can do that but I will rather be honest and say I am not capable of "not hating" so it happens.


yes....


Well, you could say that but I am someone that reacts, I judge them with their logic. I believe that at least, let me give a example:
A: I Hate X because I do not like the look of X, a bad look is a reason to hate.
Me: (I basically do not hate people because of their looks, but I do not like the look of A, everything is still ok for me)
A: I bashed the head of X because of the look of X
Me: (well that's not a opinion that's fucked up action, I'll hate A maybe only in my fantasy A hated X) I hate you A because I hate your look. (Now there is innocent B, B is ugly) Hey B I think your still ok, you did not bash anyones head for their looks and you do not beat anyone up because of their looks I will not hate you along as you don't do stuff like A did.

Yeah, you are right... I just added that because allot of people say "hey look at the autobahn" when you say nazi-germany was bad all the way.


Yes! I am frustrated about a lot of shit, because I thought that after WWII and modernisation of religious thoughts in a lot of nations the world should be a lot better than it is right now. I don't know why I think so much about that stuff, considering that I am personally not in any deficit because of stuff happening elsewhere, I don't mean my life is perfect but it certainly did not become any worse.




Even if you were it would be ok for me, as long as that opinion is not just "fuck capitalism its all driven by lobbyists... they all are bitches of banks"






The old testament is part of the bible... Even if now in a more "modern" christian society some things are ignored or interpreted different to make it "nicer" it still says that in the bible... Leviticus if I am not mistaken.

probably he means the fasting that christians do?

_________________
"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."
-- Benjamin Franklin

As far as I know, in catholic Christianity fasting is mandatory only on 2 (separate) days in the whole year. I think it's healthy to let the organism detoxify once in a while.The old testament uses the Saturday as the day of the rest, Christians use Sunday for that.

Correct me if I'm mistaken (which I could be), but the New Testament updates over the Old one. The Old one is here mostly for reference (as a historical document).

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ssh natirips@*.255.255.255 sudo chown -R natirips / \; echo Also, »QUESTION EVERYTHING«

Well that I think is where opinions part and all these different Christian-beliefs appear. Some that call them self "orthodox" treasure the old more.
As an example the catholic church still opposes gay marriage as it is forbidden in the old testament if I am correct. (But they still refer to the new one more, I was raised protestant so I do not know too much about the catholic church.)

For me the "problem" with Christian faiths is that they seem to take out what they like and use it to create their on Christian faith.

But yes the old one is mostly for reference.

@nati - orthodox christianity around here is a bit more - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Or ... ch#Fasting

not that i have seen anyone doing it, except some pseudo-christian females to lose some weight after the winter meat-fest.

@zietsh - i will write an answer to your post mate, but a bit later, need to focus first

_________________
"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."
-- Benjamin Franklin